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DurhamDawg · Sliver STAR Joined: 08 May 2006 Posts: 225

Bush and Cheney have certainly earned impeachment several times over, imo. They make Nixon look like a choir boy. I can only hope that a day or reckoning will come and that they will be held accountable for at least some of their crimes and lies at some point down the line. If not, then I hope we can survive the remainder of this disastrous administration and get a Democrat into office in '08.

quiscalus · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:55 am Post subject:

Hi DD,

Sorry I wasn't around during the day today; I was online early in the morning then ran some errands which ended up taking the rest of the day.

Speaking of disasters (as you were, as regards the current administration): I finally watched "Jesus Camp." It was horrifying. Talk about brainwashing! Those were some of the most frightening children I've ever seen. And Becky, that youth minister who said she wanted to see the same fervor in her children that children indoctrinated into fundamentalist Islam have? Yikes.

Some of it was unintentionally hilarious, like the cardboard cutout of Bush the children at camp were "talking" to. ("Look, kids! President Bush is here! Say hello!" My husband commented that there wasn't much difference in intelligence between the cardboard and the real thing; I personally think he didn't give the cardboard Bush enough credit.

The radio dialogue between Becky and Mike Papatonio from Air America was very telling. As was the look of

, dismay and resignation he had on his face when their conversation was over.

To hear a 10-year old talk about the "yucky" feeling he got from people he realized were non-Christians; or a even younger child talk about how God doesn't enter "dead" churches where people don't jump up and down and speak in tongues; and to watch children cry, chant, and grow enraged over abortion when you just know these children have been told nothing about sex (never mind "safe" sex)...well, it didn't exactly warm the cockles of my heart.

It made me ill.

I'm only sorry it came out too early for a little added information to be included in the scene of Ted Haggard preaching!

Anyway, I should be around tomorrow...
_________________
"I know not all that may be coming, but be it what it will, I'll go to it laughing." -- Melville

DurhamDawg · Sliver STAR Joined: 08 May 2006 Posts: 225

Quis, hope to see you at the Fruitstand too if you get a chance. I feel like I'm waging a one-person battle against the right-wing fundies over there (okay, 2-person -- Filly is helping me out).

Qubilai · super star constellation Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 54

DurhamDawg · Sliver STAR Joined: 08 May 2006 Posts: 225

I'm giving up on the Fruitstand. The moderating is simply too biased to allow for a real free exchange of ideas there.

This place high a much higher level of civility and intelligence -- we just need more participation here!

Smokey Stover

[quote="quiscalus"](To the tune of Sinatra's 'It was a Very Good Year')

When I was twenty-three
it was a very good year,
It was a very good year for am-phe-ta-mines
and punk rock bands.
Studded collar 'round my neck,
Safety pin in my ear.
It was a verrrr-y good year.

[Surging violins]

When I was forty-three
Uh...was it a good year? (skip)

And now those days are long gone,
I'm in the autumn of my years.
{skip}

I'm at a loss here. I don't know the song, for one thing. And did you just have a birthday? Did you suddenly leave the safety of 43 years old, and find yourself in the autumn of life?

Have your forgetten that at 50 your life is just beginning? (And you're not even there yet.) Or at least that's what a lot of very optimistic people have written. (Would that it were so!) Anyway, I'm glad to see a familiar name. I've wanted to reply to posts of yours on that other site, but was prevented, or not permitted, however you care to say it.

And what is it about Whitman? His Song of Myself is difficult and exasperating, but complaining about it suggests that you went through all that effort to read it. If you don't like that poem, try O Captain, my captain!

End of lecture.
_________________
According to Smokey,
Circumstances alter cases.

Smokey Stover · Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject:

Did I fail to reply to Quiscalus' parody of Walt WHitman's Song of Myself? I can't believe it, but I can't find my post, if there is one. It's not like me to ignore a chance to comment on Walt Whitman.

Well, I'm going to take a chance on duplication of effort, and respond. I don't care if Quiscalus' poetry is good or bad. How would I know the difference? However, in a way, Walt Whitman changed my life. (Now I know this is a twice-told tale.)

A few years ago Mrs. Stover asked me to help one of her staff members (her Assistant for Maps) improve her English, in one session a week of an hour or two. Bertha and I had a nice little preliminary discussion in which I learned that she had a degree from the University of Mexico, that she had studied English as well as Spanish and Mexican literature, that she loved literature and considered Shakespeare her favorite writer, and that she absolutely refused to do writing assignments of any kind. It was plain that she had dyslexia in English, but not Spanish, and that her writing in English was not really comprehensible (hence Mrs. Stover's desire to improve it).

I turned out that Bertha was more than happy to be offered the chance to read, out loud, English poetry, any English poetry. Her favorite poem was Walt Whitman's Song of Myself. I found that extremely odd. I was only moderately interested in poetry and had never had a college course in English or American literature of any kind. I bought a couple of copies of the Norton Anthology of Poetry and gave her one, and we started reading Song of Myself. Without prompting from me, she'd stand up straight (but not tall, since she's 5'0" tall), hold the book in front of her, and commence to read--very badly at first.

In spite of my lack of education in literature, and my lack of interest in poetry, and my ignorance of how to deal with dyslexia, we had a good time. I got a chance not only to correct Bertha's pronunciation, but also to explain what Whitman probably meant with his strange figures of speech.

It took us a while to get through the Song of Myself, which is a very long poem. We did a few other poems by Whitman, then jumped to the beginning of the anthology (which was arranged chronologically) and started to march straight through it, Bertha standing up to recite gamely every week.

Her pronunciation improved, and so did my knowledge and appreciation of poetry. We dwelt on Shakepeare sonnets for a while, although I could not get her to memorize any. We didn't do every single poem (some are verylong), but we did a long excerpt from Milton's Paradise Lost. What fun! You should read it again. When reading Vachel Linsay's General William Booth Enters Heaven you can hear the drumbeats of the Salvation Army Band which became the cornerstone of his inner-city missionary method. Terrific experience!

I had already learned to appreciate e.e. cummings, and I found that from the Elizabethan period on women had been writing poetry of great skill and interest.

We managed to stumble all the way through the Anthology, even read a few Shakespeare plays together. But her English had so improved that we no longer had an excuse for our hours stolen from work. I have since read a few of her written reports, and miraculously they have become as readable as any from the American-born non-professional staff.

If Quiscalus thinks Whitman's poetry is a drag, I can't quarrel. Chacun à son goût. Sometimes you have to really get wrapped up in something to appreciate it. Teaching poetry to Bertha changed my view of poetry entirely. I think many people have similar experiences, in that having to learn a body or arcane stuff for whatever reason, their learning all that becomes something of which they can be proud, a body of learning that they cherish simply because they actually mastered it. For some people it could be, say, all the details of the development of the personal computer following World War II. FOr some it could be learning all the Psalms by heart, or some other body of biblical verses. If could be learning Poe's The Bells and The Raven by heart. Or the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam. I said I didn't care much for poetry, but I really loved those three. And I memorized a large part of the extant poetry of O. Henry. (He wrote almost no poetry.)

Some people wonder how other people can stand Wagner's operas. Excuse me, his music-dramas. I think the key is the Leitmotiven. If you're able to learn these, and recognize them in the music, then you've got to listen to the music, and pride yourself on having learned all that nonsense. Onceyou've invested all that time in learning all the Leitmotifs, then you have to be a Wagnerian in order to validate all that effort.
_________________
According to Smokey,
Circumstances alter cases.

Smokey Stover · Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject:

My problems with navigation show me up as almost as big a fool as I really am. I have now figured out where the posts went that I had forgotten. Talk about repeating myself!

As for the impression that YOU are making, Quiscalus--I'm here, am I not? I wonder if Qubilai has succumbed to your charm for the same reasons I have. I'm sure he views you, at a minimum, as an interesting friend. At a maxium. . . . Ah, take the cash and let the credit go.
Let's hear more from DDawg (the old bitch!). Sorry, that was a joke. We can joke on this message board, can't we? If DDawg is Quiscalus' friend, I want to know more about her.
_________________
According to Smokey,
Circumstances alter cases.

DurhamDawg · Sliver STAR Joined: 08 May 2006 Posts: 225

What would you like to know, SS?

Smokey Stover · Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: